[wellylug] Re: Microsoft FUD at work (Linux fud too?)

[Wellington Assassin]

--- In wellylug at yahoogroups.com, Donald Gordon <don at d...> wrote:
> 
> Do you have a real name?
> 

Who I am is not important. Many here know who I am.

> 
> The word you were looking for is "sought".
> 

Sorry, I failed english more than once. Thank you for the correction. 


> > 1) Open source is not more secure than microsoft. Take away the
worms
> > that caused major havoc because certain MCSE +I's failing to run a
> > simple patch (flipside, apache / openssl worms anyone?), more
linux /
> > UNIX boxes are hacked / cracked / DOS'd each day than any other
OS.
> 
> A box being DOSed (I assume you don't mean installing the well-known
> "OS") is not an indication of its security.  And would you mind
> providing a source for this claim?
> 

DOS may very well be a indication of a machines insecurities. If the
dos attacks a service (ie, HTTPD) and not its bandwidth (eg, drdos, or
ddos), taking a service offline remotely is not a insecurity? 

As for a source, I do have a paper at home outline some statistics
(compiled by netcraft.com and another crowd whos name escapes me). I
am happy to hunt it out for you. 


> > Open source does have a down side. Bugs are found, exploited and
NOT
> > disclosed as much as people would like to think.
> 
> The same is true for any OS.
> 

This is very much true. It is however, considerably easier to find
bugs when you have the source code.

> > 3) Most banking servers (talking web / exposed servers not AIX
boxes
> > in the background) still run on NT4 / NT2000. Why? Patched
microsoft,
> > and properly maintained microsoft is solid and secure.
> 
> I assumed it was because they'd developed their web-banking software
to
> run on IIS, but I may be incorrect.
> 

I would say quite possably a 50 / 50. However, if the backends are
UNIX, surely writing a Linux / UNIX front end would be easy? A good
friend of mine in security for a bank in nz has however, mentained
multiple times, they are not willing to use linux frontends because of
their insecurties. I would imagion however, this is likely to change
in the near future with new LKMs to prevent stack overflows (the #
source of remote exploitation), there are good stack overflow patches
for FreeBSD, and I believe linux isn't far behind (does anyone have a
link?)... 

> > 4) GNU is not UNIX. You would have to hire a linux geek, not a
UNIX
> > geek ;) 
> 
> Linux is very similar to UNIX.  A UNIX geek could easily adapt to
Linux
> in a small amount of time.
> 

It was a joke. Hense the wink. 

> > 5) Support. We need to point out to people asking the question of
> > linux in business different support options. This is a companies
> > infrastructure they are playing with, not a home desktop machine. 
> 
> If you're trying to address one of Ilia's points, I can't see which
one
> it is.
> 

I was addressing a linux in business point. Here in New Zealand and
around the world, we are pushing for linux in business, when people
ask the question, I simply wish to point out that many answers come
from a home 'lab' ideal. Using linux in business is more than just
patching it to do the job. Redhat provide customer support for
example, but for a price. This is sort of thing we need to keep in
mind when advising people on linux in a business enviroment.

> > If you read this and think "My Lord! He's a windows advicate"
please
> > reread and rethink the above content, however, a certain reality
that
> > many Linux users / groups / companies around the world are looking
> > past, is that not all businesses are in a postition to take the
plunge
> > into open source.
> 
> But many are.  Who is claiming that *everyone* is?
>

Force of habbit. My apology. I am used to people insisitng on using
linux even where its not appropriate. 
 
> > Not to mentain, Linux itself is only just touching
> > on being a solid, reliable business tool. 
> 
> Please elaborate.
>

I am looking at it from a commercial support aspect. If I don't wish
to use redhat, what else is there out there that holds commercial
support? Linux is only just coming of age. I am refering  to the
desktop, as well as the server. Driver support, 3rd party support for
devices (example, NVidia came to the party for linux users, but still
does not -offically- support them), in fact many of the major hardware
venders have drivers, but do not offically support them. Also there
could be alot said of stability, security, and of course users ability
to use the product.

> > My $1.25 worth.
> 
> Rampant inflation is bad for the economy.
> 
> don
> 
> (ps: does your MUA have any way of generating messages which don't
have every second line blank?)

That is out of my control sorry. 

Cheers, 

P

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