Debian/Ubuntu as cruelty? (was Re: [wellylug] ubuntu help.... & SimplyMEPIS Linux)

[Cliff Pratt]

Geraint Jones wrote:
> On Thu, 2006-08-17 at 22:53 +1200, Cliff Pratt wrote:
>> Brent Wood wrote:
>>> 
>>> OK, the issues with the pIII. Kubuntu was the distro that seemed
>>> to do everything the guy wanted, & supported all his hardware out
>>> of the box. USB Sony minidisk, etc... Once there he wanted emacs.
>>> I opened the package mangler, I forget which it was, whatever
>>> Kubuntu uses, & searched for emacs. It found nothing.
>>> 
>> Tsk, tsk, tsk. You didn't wonder *why* it didn't find the package
>> you wanted?
>>> 
>>> I said I'd find the .deb files he needed, & I assumed that
>>> sticking them on a CD & clicking on them from Konqueror would
>>> install them easily.
>>> 
>> So, a few seconds after installing a distribution you decide to
>> subvert the packaging system.
>>> 
>>> So, I found the URL for the NZ Ubuntu repository. Opened it in a 
>>> browser looking for a directory full of .debs. Stuffed if I could
>>>  find any. I then searched for emacs, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, deb,
>>> debian, repository, etc. Still couldn't find anything. (This is
>>> unusual. I generally find whatever I'm looking for in a few
>>> minutes).
>>> 
>> You DON'T find Debian packages that way. But if you do, it took me
>> just a few minutes to find this....
>> 
>> http://nz.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/e/
>> 
>> And I wasn't familiar with the structure before I looked. I just
>> pulled the URL out of sources.list and browsed around a little.
>>> 
>>> I told the guy I wasn't sure what to do, as I was unfamiliar with
>>>  Debian based distros. I couldn't find an equivalent to 
>>> www.rpmfind.net <http://www.rpmfind.net> in a couple of minutes,
>>> so I flicked my question to the list, where Andrej & Jonathan
>>> gave excellent & complete replies that I'm pretty sure will work.
>>> 
>>> 
>> There is no equivalent of rpmfind because it is not required!
>> 
>> Honestly! You slap on a distro, don't bother to find out about the
>>  packaging system ('package mangler'!!), you then try to find
>> packages by a non-standard method (even for rpm-based distros you
>> rarely have to 'rpmfind' a package, and you rarely have to use the
>> rpm command), then you blame the distro because it doesn't work the
>> way that you expect it to!
>> 
>> It's highly likely that the system is not correctly configured with
>>  repositories correctly set, and the guy will find that he has a
>> system that he can't get updates for!
>> 
> Cliff : Woah chill out man - rpm, deb, whatever they all have their 
> merits. i dont see why anyone should be persecuted for making a
> mistake - we all have our methods, as for downloading and installing
> a .deb by hand - it is perfectly standard and fine. all apt does is
> to automate the process. Get off your high horse and help rather than
> putting the guy down. as for "there is no equivalent of rpmfind" what
> do you call this ?
> http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages#search_packages and this 
> http://packages.ubuntu.com/
> 
RPMfind is independent of any distro. Both of those are distro-related. 
But you are correct.

FWIW I use both Debian (deb based) and RedHat (rpm based) systems, and 
I've never slapped on a deb or rpm just because I couldn't be bothered 
with the distro's package management system.

Cheers,

Cliff