[wlug_org] yet another installfest update

[Wood Brent]

--- Sam Cannell <sam@plaz.net.nz> wrote:
> Brent,
> 
> I really don't think it's fair to judge Debian based on your experiences
> with Knoppix.  Yes, Knoppix is based on Debian, but it'd be like saying
> Redhat is bad because you don't like Mandrake - It doesn't make a lot of
> sense.

Fair enough, I don't actually disagree with you at all. But Knoppix comes up
with a _BIG_ Debian wallpaper. If that is what the user is gonna see, they
aren't gonna realise that this isn't REALLY Debian, because it very loudly
proclaims IT IS!!. 

Knoppix is proud of it's Debian roots, & the Debian community is (very
justifiably) proud of what the Knoppix project has accomplished.

As they both make such strong assertions that they are from the same stable,
I'm just tarring them with the same brush (to mix my metaphors :-) Prob a bit
unfairly, as you say, but my I believe my comments are likely to reflect users
perceptions. And one of the main roles of an installfest is try to correct
misconceptions, not provide ammo for more of them.

I have found so much in the last few years to show how well the Linux community
is de-geeking Linux to make it ready for desktop use, then things like this
come out which will be such a negative experience for potential users. Very
frustrating & sad, IMHO.


I apologise for appearing negative about Debian generally, from all I know of
it (second hand except from yrs ago) it is a great distro, with some
features/facilities prob the best in the community. IMHO, it is not necessarily
the best for novices, feel free to differ :-) 

I reckon perhaps the greatest strength of Linux is that even though we may
disagree about summat like this, it does provide us with the choice & a
solution which meets both our needs.


> You mentioned that the cdrom device was /dev/scd0 - knoppix most likely
> enables the ide-scsi driver by default to allow recording cds using ide
> writers.  If this is the case, then the cdrom will be accessible as
> /dev/scd0.  Many distributions now are doing it nowadays.

It did seem to. But normally in such cases /dev/cdrom is a symlink to /dev/scd0
(at least I think that is what I've found before- remember I'm a novice :-) but
it was NOT a symlink, so I used it as the primary device. Anyway, it worked & I
didn't bother investigating further, with 4 more stores to get to :-)


> As for your other problems, I can't really comment as I haven't used
> Knoppix since sometime in 2002.  In any case, it's unfair to state that
> Debian's installer is "buggy and unfriendly" just because you had some
> issues getting Knoppix working.

Fair enough, my issues were with Knoppix, which, from the discussions we had
planning the 'fest, is being given out as a Linux/Debian "demo".

My concerns related to this aspect, & any negative impressions installees may
get from trying to do a hd install from the disk. Hence the suggestion that
someone just has a look to see if there is a problem we should address. Maybe
make sure we suggest those taking the Knoppix disk use it only as a LiveCD &
install Debian proper if they decide on a hd install??? (you may already have
decided this, I don't know ...)

> Imho, Debian has one of the most simple and straightforward installers
> available.

I wouldn't know, but I've yet to see a Debian review which rates it as a
"newbie distro". In most other areas it does appear to rank way up there
though.


A quote from the net (whether correct or not is a different story, but it seems
a pretty common claim):

 Knoppix is a single CD - "Live CD" distribution of Debian. IT is of enormous 
 benefit to promote Linux. It is also a very easy way of installing 
 a Debian system in the HDD with a nice GUI interface for newcomers to Linux.

This was the first link I got back from a search- Knoppix & Debian _are_
perceived as very close. 



Spotcha....